jsb16 NP: #sbarbook Ch7: in which I flounder trying to get a handle on designing assessments to get at student understanding of velocity.
jsb16 NP: #sbarbook Ch7: http://t.co/SWlJUtB in which I try to get a handle on designing assessments to get at student understanding of velocity.
druinok Okay ladies and gents, who all is here for Ch 8 of #sbarbook?
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook Woohoo I am here, and twitter is working again for me suddenly!
jsb16 I'm sort of here #sbarbook. Haven't finished the chapter, though.
fourkatie Here for #sbarbook, but Twitter says I'm following 0 people so not seeing much!
druinok Okay, so any first thoughts on Ch 8? Do any of you use rubrics now when grading? #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook I have some bad ones I created that I used. After this chap I know why teachers before me used rubistar. consistency.
druinok I liked the idea that an explicit goal implies the criteria needed for the rubric, even before the task is designed (pg176) #sbarbook
druinok For me, the issue with rubrics is that it takes so long to get it perfected :( I did like their guide on how to set one up tho #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook and just because you give feedback with a rubric doesnt mean it has to be a grade. grade could come later after revision
jsb16 @druinok #sbarbook I use rubrics, but I've never happy with them. Not fond of Rubistar. I like @DataDiva's rubrics.
druinok @gwaddellnvhs I know w/ the AP rubrics, they start w/ a draft and use hundreds of student papers to revise #sbarbook
eduz8 MT I totally agree. Change them every time. @druinok For me, the issue with rubrics is that it takes so long to get perfect #sbarbook
jrykse Anyone able to get back on for #sbarbook?
druinok @gwaddellnvhs but obviously in our classrooms, we don't have unlimited resources with which to perfect the descriptors #sbarbook
druinok @jsb16 I've not seen her rubrics - do you have a link? #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook that is the problem isn't it. Bouncing off of the @datadiva comment. WOW!!! I have not seen her site before. Nice.
jsb16 @druinok Hang on while I find them back... #sbarbook
druinok I also really liked the self-assessment piece (2 ?s) on pg 184... #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Here's @DataDiva's 'Quality Rubrics' wiki: http://qualityrubrics.pbworks.com/w/page/992395/Home
gwaddellnvhs @druinok @jsb16 #sbarbook I wonder how many times I have given invalid assessments and though later, why didn't they get it?
jsb16 I like the 6facet rubric (pg 178-8) #sbarbook. I'm thinking that the top level is beyond A+ for HS, though.
druinok @gwaddellnvhs exactly! I think that's the hardest part :( and the same issue w/ self-assessment of the rubric #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 #sbarbook Should it be though? if many (not all) assignments are built around they honeycomb, they should be able to reach up to it.
druinok @gwaddellnvhs sometimes when I've used rubrics, I get frustrated b/c their overall score doesn't seem to match the output :( #sbarbook
justbugnu @druinok I really liked the self-assess on that page as well. #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook both ways on score not matching.I had terrific work earn low score. Was rubrics expectations not met, or work truly bad?
jsb16 @gwaddellnvhs #sbarbook In physics? Thorough, inventive, powerful, illuminating... Grad students still aspire to the kind of understanding.
druinok @gwaddellnvhs or poor descriptors on rubric? good question #sbarbook
justbugnu #sbarbook I really liked the self-test for assessment ideas on pg 187. I'm going to use that as I plan.
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 #sbarbook harder in physics, you are right. (my degree is in physics, I understand!) But pushing them can't hurt (I hope).
druinok I think I need to take their advice on starting small w/ rubrics, just understanding and performance at first #sbarbook
jsb16 @gwaddellnvhs #sbarbook I'm thinking that 2nd-from-top will be A+, & top will be "extra credit".
druinok @jsb16 @gwaddellnvhs you are referring to the rubric on pg 178? #sbarbook
eduz8 #sbarbook Rubrics are tough. Trying to predict paths and quantify feedback seem to limit options and make a task less "authentic".
gwaddellnvhs @druinok @jsb16 #sbarbook yes. That is a tough rubric on 178.
druinok @jsb16 @gwaddellnvhs I agree that top line is pretty intense for most kids #sbarbook
jsb16 @druinok @gwaddellnvhs #sbarbook Yes. The top level seems a discouragingly high bar for students unused to SBAR.
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 @druinok #sbarbook I think it takes a lot of scaffolding to begin at a lower level, and by the end of the year work up to this (178)
druinok @eduz8 agreed, I like the "make piles and jot why on sticky-notes" approach they had, but crazy amounts of time #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Really wish I could run through the refining process on p181 with actual student work & colleagues.
druinok @jsb16 I don't know that I would have a large enough sample size to refine well :( #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 #sbarbook I have several teachers that collaborate with me on this type of thing in my department. That way we help each other.
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 #sbarbook I strongly recommend it! When several people are coming up with good material based on this, it make light of the work.
eduz8 @druinok I find that the refining is mostly in my head: my goals, my purpose. Rather than student work. #sbarbook
jsb16 @druinok #sbarbook I don't think it's a matter of sample size. Even a small class can have variety of understandings.
druinok @eduz8 I think part of my struggle is so many rubrics are very subjective and that's tough :( #sbarbook
druinok @jsb16 For the purposes of refining the rubric though - if you are using student samples to refine the descriptors #sbarbook
jsb16 @gwaddellnvhs #sbarbook I'd love to, believe me. A matter of convincing colleagues that I'm not trying 2 get them 2 do my work or vice versa
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 #sbarbook I guess that is where twitter comes in then, huh! We need to find you some like minded physics teachers.
jsb16 @druinok #sbarbook It's still not a sample size issue. You're looking for examples of work at each level. Iterative, rather than statistical
jsb16 @gwaddellnvhs #sbarbook Also a matter of getting permission/forgiveness for posting student work on the interwebs... :)
druinok @eduz8 I struggle writing the descriptors in a clear enough manner to easily differentiate between the levels #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 #sbarbook If you use post-its to cover identifying part, take pictures or scan w/o names, should be no problem. Just don't post it.
jsb16 @druinok @eduz8 #sbarbook Think fewer levels would be easier to write?
gwaddellnvhs @druinok @eduz8 #sbarbook I think practice with writing the descriptors is key here. The more we practice, the easier it will be.
druinok @gwaddellnvhs @eduz8 @jsb16 To be perfectly honest, dont know how much of this I will implement this year - it's very overwhelming #sbarbook
eduz8 #sbarbook Ever have students use your rubric to provide feedback on peers?
jsb16 When I blog this chapter #sbarbook (probably tomorrow), I'll post some of the rubrics I used this year. Hoping people will comment.
gwaddellnvhs @druinok @eduz8 @jsb16 #sbarbook like with anything worthwhile, baby steps!
jsb16 @eduz8 #sbarbook I write a separate rubric for peer assessments, focused more on process than understanding.
eduz8 #sbarbook I am finding thinking about bid ideas to bind my course together helpful. Different. Build from there. http://bit.ly/qyWqIl
eduz8 @jsb16 How are they different? #sbarbook
druinok @gwaddellnvhs Just be happy I've continued reading - I was about to chuck this book a few chapters back :) #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook Nooo! Honestly, I think this is the most useful, and difficult, book I have read since becoming a teacher.
jsb16 @eduz8 #sbarbook 4 a lab report, process is: are graphs clear? Questions answered? Conclusion stated? Understanding is: r conclusions valid?
eduz8 @jsb16 #sbarbook Why do you not have students provide feedback on the validity of conclusions?
jsb16 @eduz8 #sbarbook Their grasp of validity tends to be right v. wrong and often accompanied by insults &/or sucking up. Trying to avoid emo...
druinok Okay #sbarbook folks, the convo seems to be winding down - what do you want to do for Ch 9? What day is best for you?
jsb16 @druinok #sbarbook Next week! I need time to process and start experimenting with all these ideas...
fourkatie Sorry I missed #sbarbook. I still have 0 follows/followers, but I'm seeing some posts in my stream now.
jreulbach @fourkatie Sorry I missed. Fam reunion this week. It's going to be hard to get to anything this week. #sbarbook
druinok Also guys, once August gets here, I don't know how reliable I will be w/ #sbarbook just fair warning :)
druinok any other feedback on when to do ch 9 of #sbarbook? (If it's next week, I will need a volunteer to lead it) (also, ch 9 is long)
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 @druinok #sbarbook I agree, next monday.
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook I can help lead it if it is Monday.
jsb16 @gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook Likewise: I can help out if it's next Monday.
druinok Okay then, next Monday night it is :) #sbarbook