lmhenry9 Who's here for Chapter 5 of #sbarbook tonight/
druinok @lmhenry9 I'm here! #sbarbook
jrykse Present #sbarbook
jsb16 I'm here. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 Where do you want to start #sbarbook tonight? I am almost done with Chapter 5.
jsb16 #sbarbook I think I'm not going to really understand ch5 until I've written, read, and discussed some actual questions.
lmhenry9 Please remember to "go public" if you can with your #sbarbook tweets for this hour or so - it does help me get the transcript.
druinok I liked the comment on pg 108 that said "best questions are alive - people argue about them outside of school" #sbarbook
druinok also liked the idea on pg 110 that wording does not tell whether a question is essential - must look at the context #sbarbook
jrykse I tried to come up with topical, overarching questions for an essential understanding. #sbarbook
jrykse Then I had to go back and re-read. Having to approach this book differently than past ones. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @druinok I like that one, too. I'm trying 2 find questions that physicists actually consider, while still being useful 4 15yr-olds
lmhenry9 I am still struggling with the EQs in skill areas section. Still trying to figure out what they look like in math. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry9 Did you look at the math question on pg117?
druinok @jrykse agreed - this book is very heavy :( can only read a few pages at a time #sbarbook
jrykse @jsb16 @druinok I don't think my questions will be argued outside of school but I tried. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @jsb16 Not there yet. I am on the top of page 117 in #sbarbook.
druinok It only seems that skill areas have no EQs bc the most commonly used assessments ... require no transfer, no judgment ouch!! #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Would it be useful to poke at possible essential questions as a group?
jrykse @lmhenry9 Shall I share the example I tried to do?
lmhenry9 The prevalent thought I had as I am reading this chapter of #sbarbook is that I'm not sure I'm ready to do this. Maybe I've taken on 2 much?
druinok @lmhenry9 agreed - I can come up with the topical questions, but hard for the overarching ones #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @jrykse By all means, share your example. #sbarbook
druinok I liked the analogy of “Jeopardy” to help w/ the questions (pg 118)
jsb16 #sbarbook What's your area, @jrykse?
jrykse The EU is the ability to display data graphically. #sbarbook
jrykse @jsb16 Math. Teaching a 9th grade intro to stats.
druinok @jrykse somehow I missed this tweet - would love to hear your questions #sbarbook
jryske Topical question: When use histogram vs. box plot vs …etc.
jsb16 #sbarbook So an EQ might be "How do we communicate data so that others can understand?"
druinok @jsb16 I agree with that re:writing ?s, but it still feels very theoretical to me :( #sbarbook
jrykse Overarching: How does graphical display tell a story? How is graphical display used to refute or support an opinion. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @druinok Very much with you there. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook The communication is what people use graphs for in the "Real World", right? All of this is theory, atm, @jrykse. :)
druinok @lmhenry9 @jsb16 while there are a few math examples, they aren't ones that seem to help me understand :( #sbarbook
jrykse Topical question: When use histogram vs box plot vs. ... etc. (forgot #sbarbook)
lmhenry9 @druinok @jsb16 *Exactly* - I had that exact thought (even though I'm not through the chapter yet). #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @druinok @jsb16 I also through there were fewer math examples in this chapter of #sbarbook than in the past chapters.
druinok @lmhenry9 agreed - I'm plugging on, but so tough for this very visual learner :( #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Those sound fine for starters, @jrykse. I have the feeling this process is extremely spiral-like, and we'll be refining qs 4ever.
jrykse @jsb16 I like this as overarching for the whole unit. Not just about graphical displays but also summary statistics, etc. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @druinok I also wondered as I read how this will work with SBG for me - I have concepts spelled out pretty clearly right now. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @jrykse Topical qs might be something like "Which measure of central tendency is fairest for calculating grades?"
jrykse @lmhenry9 @druinok Wouldn't your concepts be the EU's. The essential questions serves as the connection between them all? #sbarbook
druinok @lmhenry9 I've wondered that too - I know that w/ SBG, I am more careful w/ the assessments I write #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry9 Give us a concept and let's see if we can come up with related EQs?
lmhenry9 Simplifying radicals. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 (And yes, I know technically that's supposed to be in Alg 1 but we end up doing it in Alg 2) #sbarbook
jrykse Of course then there are the "teacherly?" questions which are supposed to be in stage 3. In case we are not confused enough. #sbarbook
druinok Students need a curriculum that treats them more like potential performers than sideline observers #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry9 When would one need to simplify a radical in the wild? My guess is Pythagoras & distances, y?
druinok @lmhenry9 and in geometry... :) #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @jsb16 I intentionally picked something that I knew would be tough. Primarily simplifying radicals is used in Geom. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry9 So then the purpose of simplifying radicals is to make it easier to compare them to whole numbers?
druinok @jrykse so glad I'm not the only one that was confused! At this point, I don't remember what stage 2/3 are! #sbarbook
jrykse How about: When would you want to (need to) simplify a radical? #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @jsb16 Well, that's an excellent question. There are a lot of things we teach in math that I cannot figure out the "point." #sbarbook
druinok @jsb16 @lmhenry9 depends - personally, I think its easier to compare unsimplified radicals w/ whole numbers #sbarbook
jrykse @jsb16 @lmhenry9 Depends. Stand alone "answer" to something? Who cares, don't simplify. Sometimes helpful to see patterns. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry9 Do you do AlgII before or after Geom? "How do we compare the distances between points?"
druinok @jsb16 @lmhenry9 like sqrt(45) is between 6 (sqrt36) and 7 (sqrt49) - easier to know than 3sqrt5 IMO #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @jsb16 Right now we do Alg1, Alg2, Geom - we changed b/c OH requires Alg2 to graduate with class of '14. #sbarbook
druinok @jryske yeah, might not want to use the word “want” – kids would say “never!” :)
jsb16 #sbarbook I'm not sure it's possible to design decent curriculum without having some notion of the point. :)
druinok @lmhenry9 AMEN!!!! :)
jrykse @druinok I had to go back to p18 and p22 to refresh myself on the stages. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @jrykse @jsb16 I agree here - the sqrt(45) can have more meaning to students than 3*sqrt(5) but 3*sqrt(5) Is considered "proper." #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @druinok @lmhenry True. Perhaps to compare radicals? sqrt(45) & sqrt(125)?
druinok so a lot of schools rephrase the daily goal as a question to be answered - is *that* an EQ? or something else? #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry So then maybe the EQ is related to the 1 @ bottom of 117: "What are the strengths & weaknesses of mathematical language?"
lmhenry9 @druinok And to top it all off, we still have to teach these concepts - especially if you're in Common Core. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @druinok I am really going to have to look at Common Core to determine what to teach. #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @lmhenry9 sorry I am late. Here for #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @druinok I think EQs are supposed to be 2-5/unit, not 1/day...
lmhenry9 @gwaddellnvhs Glad you made it to #sbarbook!
jrykse @druinok I think that would be one of the stage 3 questions. #sbarbook
druinok @lmhenry9 yeah, I don't know when our state is phasing CC in - we have state objectives until then #sbarbook
lmhenry9 i think this was the statement that really convicted me this chapter (next tweet) #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Some standards have questions written in. Is Common Core one of those?
druinok @jsb16 that's what I'm getting from it too, but for math, a daily goal is more likely I think #sbarbook
lmhenry9 #sbarbook pg.110 "The essentialness of the question depends upon why we pose it, how we intend students to tackle it and what we expect for learning activities and assessments as a result.”
lmhenry9 @jsb16 I haven't looked at Common Core in a detailed enough fashion to answer that. #sbarbook
druinok @jrykse I'm getting so confused on the semantics :( #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @druinok Having daily goals doesn't mean you can't have overarching goals. Both are necessary, IMO.
druinok for me, the convicting statement was "We must give students work that enables them to have an "Aha!" equivalent to that ... (cont) #sbarbook
druinok ...felt by the scholar who first came to the understanding. #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @jsb16 @druinok I completely agree. The EU is to help tie it all together. It might take a week or two to get 1 EU unerstood. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry @druinok There r so many statements that bang me over the head. Keep coming back 2 "No question is inherently essential."
druinok @jsb16 the overarching goals (thinking alg2) are more unit based, I think?? #sbarbook
druinok @gwaddellnvhs we aren't to EU's yet - I think that's the next chapter... #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook I so want to find the perfect question(s). Banging up against the impossibility of that. Really want to practice revising qs.
lmhenry9 @jsb16 I sense a blog post coming on for you... #sbarbook
druinok I have to admit, I have always learned a lot from #sbarbook, but this book is about to do me in :(
lmhenry9 @druinok We are phasing in Common Core over the next three years. CC must be in place by 2014-2015 for us. #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @druinok Ditto here. #sbarbook
druinok @jsb16 I'm not even sure where to start to write qs :( #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook @druinok I think that'd be right, but you might find a couple to tie the course together, though less likely 4 Alg2, AFAIK.
jsb16 #sbarbook @lmhenry Alreaedy posted: http://physicsadventures.blogspot.com/2011/06/thoughts-while-reading-understanding-by.html
lmhenry9 @jsb16 I haven't had a chance to read it yet. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Aw, don't give up! :) Write a whole bunch of questions, throw them up on a blog post, and we can try revising together?
jsb16 #sbarbook I think the whole process will be easier to cope with after running through it a few (dozen) times.
lmhenry9 @jsb16 I don't think I'm at the point of feeling ready to start writing questions yet. Still utterly confused. #sbarbook
druinok @jrykse we explore radical functions in alg2 - and its used in geometry #sbarbook
jrykse I think it will be easier for me after chapter on EU's. Then use those to come back to p120 to do questions. #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Like most big ideas, I think UbD can't be learned by reading, only by trying, & getting feedback & trying again (and again)
druinok @jrykse I was very grateful for the list on pg 120
gwaddellnvhs @lmhenry9 I think the best thing was already recommended. Blog some first attempts and then gather input. #sbarbook Start with skills and
gwaddellnvhs @lmhenry9 once you have the skills down, start looking for a question that ties all the skills together. One example for conics & lines:
jsb16 #sbarbook How's this for a deal: whenever you're ready to try writing EQs, I'll try to read & offer feedback, if you read & critique mine?
druinok @jsb16 yeah, I would agree w/ that #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @lmhenry9 "Can you find the lost hiker?" his gps is on the fritz, all it tells him is the distance ea from 3 towers.
druinok @gwaddellnvhs so then we do have a daily question? #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @lmhenry9 "Can you find the lost hiker?" his gps is on the fritz, all it tells him is the distance ea from 3 towers. Now the learner has 3
druinok @jsb16 I think that's a great idea - if I can ever get my mind wrapped around all of this :) #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs #sbarbook circles, must expand all 3 (6 binimial expansions), subtract the results (2 polynomial subtractions) and then solve system of line
justbugnu @druinok this is the last yr coming up b4 CC. They will put some in this yr state testing to see but won’t count for passing. #sbarbook
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook I see nothing wrong with daily or unit questions. The questions you make drives what you do and assess, daily, weekly ..
jsb16 #sbarbook @druinok Y'all can start by shredding my attempts. :)
lmhenry9 Any closing thoughts as we wind down on Ch 5 of #sbarbook?
druinok @gwaddellnvhs okay, so similar to the learning targets for SBG, but phrased in question format? #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook I think the daily/weekly questions are the border between topical EQs and "teacherly" Qs, which we'll get to in Stg3.
gwaddellnvhs @druinok #sbarbook I guess. I have never really done SBG, but I know they work together quite well.
jsb16 #sbarbook Also, since "No Q is inherently E" what matters is how we use them.
jrykse I feel like we are getting pieces of everything. Hoping it will be easier when I get the "whole story". #sbarbook
druinok @gwaddellnvhs that helps, I think :) #sbarbook
druinok @jsb16 you are very generous in offering :) #sbarbook
lmhenry9 @jrykse I'm with you there. #sbarbook
druinok @jsb16 I don't disagree, but that's about all I can wrap my head around right now #sbarbook
jsb16 @druinok #sbarbook I learn best by trying things. Won't get better at this stuff if I don't try it & get feedback.
justbugnu #sbarbook @druinok I’m up for trying questions out with each other. I’m so visual this book is tough.
druinok @justbugnu me too!! very visual learner, so this is tough for me #sbarbook
lmhenry9 Any other #sbarbook closing thoughts?
justbugnu @druinok good thing I’m going to wrkshp with author first part of august. Do I need to take a list of our #sbarbook ques?
lmhenry9 Chapter 6 of #sbarbook will be Wednesday 7/6 at 9:30p est. Probably looking at either Tue or Wed 7/12 or 7/13 for Chapter 7.
gwaddellnvhs @lmhenry9 #sbarbook I won't be available next week. 3000 mile trip on the motorcycle will be occupying my time and energy!
druinok @jsb16 agreed - hopefully by the end of the summer, I will get to that point - I'm still a ways off from the big picture though #sbarbook
jsb16 #sbarbook Everyone can try to take a stab at writing an EQ or 2 or at least heckle my attempts before then?