Monday, June 27, 2011

Understanding by Design Chapter 4 - #sbarbook Monday 6/27/2011

lmhenry9               Who's here for Ch 4 of #sbarbook?

fourkatie               Here (although not caught up) for Ch 4 of #sbarbook

jsb16                       I'm caught up with #sbarbook.

druinok                  @lmhenry9 I'm here!! #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9 I am here for #sbarbook

druinok                  @fourkatie at least Ch 4 was easier to read than Ch 3 :)

lmhenry9               Yay! Glad to see we have our crew back for #sbarbook. Anyone have some place they'd like to start?

jrykse                      Here #sbarbook

druinok                  I had never realized how many ways we use the word "understand" until this chapter #sbarbook

Mr_Martenis       @lmhenry9 I'm here #sbarbook

jrykse                      Seemed to basically make the case for what is understanding and ways to show it. #sbarbook

jsb16                       I should probably blog as I go through #sbarbook. Lots of little insights that I don't want stuck in a notebook or lost among tweets.

druinok                  Y'all have no idea how much I missed you last week!  I was grateful for the transcript after I finished Ch 3 :) #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9 #sbarbook I really was pulled by the importance of the 6 facts of understanding. It made so much sense, and is hard to accomplish.

druinok                  I really saw a lot of application for math in facets 1-3, not so much for 4&5 and some apps for students in 6 #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @jrykse I was debating (especially later in the ch) whether all 6 facets had to be present at once. #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @jsb16 I started writing in the margins later in this chapter of #sbarbook. That helped.

jsb16                       Liked "stdnts learn that they R not 'done' w/ a project [] simply bec they worked hard, followed dir, & turned in a product." #sbarbook p94

druinok                  @lmhenry9 I don't think all 6 have to be present - I think 4&5 are hard to see in a math classroom (more history?) #sbarbook

jsb16                       @lmhenry9 Cant write in the margins of #sbarbook: it's a library copy.

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9 In our trainings, our leader encouraged us to really try hard to do SOME assign. with all 6 facets. #sbarbook

justbugnu             @lmhenry9 Im here ch 4 of #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @jsb16 Ohhhhh... Oops. I can see why you'd want to blog or make notes then as you are reading #sbarbook.

gwaddellnvhs      @druinok If you want to see some examples of all 6 in math, look specifically at the honeycomb activities. #sbarbook

druinok                  @jsb16 blogging is a good idea!  I use sticky notes in my books (can't stand to write in them) #sbarbook

stardiverr              CHecking this out.  #sbarbook

jsb16                       @druinok Tried to come up with applications to physics for each facet.1-3 were easy. 4: perspective of traffic eng/plumber.

lmhenry9               @druinok I thought that too. I was hoping it just had to be part of the 6. #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @gwaddellnvhs Is that possible in math? I kept asking myself that, especially as I read 4 and 5. #sbarbook

druinok                  @gwaddellnvhs I wrote a few notes to myself on facet 1 and the AP exam :) #sbarbook

stardiverr              I only write i books I don't like but have to read.  #sbarbook

druinok                  @gwaddellnvhs thanks!!  I'll check it out #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @druinok A typical honeycomb with all 6 facets may take 2 to 4 periods to finish. Not a one per., get it done type of exercise. #sbarbook

druinok                  @lmhenry9 I thought that 1-3 really had a lot of apps in rich problems, PBL, etc for math #sbarbook

jsb16                       @druinok 5: history &alternative theories, especially for geometry (spherical/plane/hyperbolic), number systems (when is 8+5!=12?) #sbarbook

jrykse                      @gwaddellnvhs @lmhenry9 I can see why they said only some assignments.  Developing them must have been a bear. #sbarbook

jsb16                       Facet 6 seems to be about having students self-assess, which is also part of SBAR, right? #sbarbook

druinok                  @gwaddellnvhs the best I could do with perspective was type i/ii errors - depends on which side you are on #sbarbook

jsb16                       #sbarbook Would having students identify appropriate assumptions &/or defend chosen assumptions be part of facet 4?

lmhenry9               I marked pg. 89 "We value good storytellers...previously seemed to be abstract or irrelevent" with @ddmeyer #wcydwt #anyqs by it. #sbarbook

druinok                  building arguments and supporting their answer is a weakness in general - I see lots of facet 1 possibilities #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @jrykse Yes, very tough. Our leader suggested to save them for the really big ideas that need to carry over. #sbarbook

justbugnu             Taught 7th math last yr n tried to do extended response for application n always a disaster. They struggle with that facet

druinok                  @justbugnu what type of extended response did you try?  that's one area (of many) I gwaddellnvhs                                  @mrhodotnet @druinok I have others that I have not uploaded. I will work on that as I talk. #sbarbook refresh the page to see them!

druinok                  @lmhenry9 I also tagged that with @ddmeyer's name :) #sbarbook

want to work on #sbarbook

Mr_Martenis       @druinok I agree - it's hard to see how to asses perspective and empathy in science/math classes #sbarbook

jsb16                       I've thinking that asking students to redesign a lab with more/less tech might help with empathy. Thoughts? #sbarbook

stardiverr              @druinok thanks.  Interesting.  Does anyone here teach anything but math?

druinok                  @jsb16 I thought the same thing about 6 - it was more about knowing yourself as a learner #sbarbook

lmhenry9               pg.97 "For that matter, what were the orig thinkers...To what extent do textbooks distort...audiences?" Do we have this in math? #sbarbook

jrykse                      @jsb16 I can see that for #4.  Similar to saying why use certain method for solving a quadratic? Pros/cons to certain method. #sbarbook

jsb16                       @stardiverr Physics, here.

lmhenry9               @stardiverr There are a lot of math teachers here. W/ doing UbD, we have some science tchrs also. Had some other interest as well. #sbarbook

stardiverr              Facets are having a somewhat different meaning to me as I apply them to math.  #sbarbook

justbugnu             @druinok I did real world situations that required them to answer in multiple steps but use the content we covered in that chapter.

jsb16                       @lmhenry9 Yes, you have that in math! There are other possible number systems. Mayans used 16? #sbarbook

druinok                  @lmhenry9 I wondered that as well - I thought the excerpt from the CAN text was an interesting perspective on Amer History #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9 #sbarbook Questions like "how does the elimination method feel about the substitution method" get to the issue of empathy.

lmhenry9               @druinok I did too - really liked that and will probably point that out to the history teacher at school in my PLC we're starting. #sbarbook

druinok                  @stardiverr mostly math and science teachers - grades 6-12 #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9 It seems like an odd question to a math teacher, but to answer it requires a deep understanding and creativity. #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @gwaddellnvhs Okay, I chuckled at that one. Just can't "see' the elimination method having feelings... #mathisnonemotional,right? #sbarbook

druinok                  @jrykse interesting :)  can a question fit multiple facets? re: "why use certain method" #sbarbook

jsb16                       #sbarbook Ask students to imagine living in a society that used a different base: French Revolution tried to go to 10-day week.

lmhenry9               @gwaddellnvhs It does, and I bet there would be a kid who was really well-rounded who would have a field day with it. #sbarbook

druinok                  @justbugnu I want to create more authentic situations, but not sure where to start #sbarbook

Mr_Martenis       I'm attempting to find a use for empathy in science/math... #sbarbook

druinok                  @gwaddellnvhs eager to hear your answer - how does the elimination method feel? :) #sbarbook

stardiverr              @Mr_Martenis Me too.  #empathy  #sbarbook

jrykse                      Wondering when I have kids do application just how diverse or not ordinary the problems we do are. Will need to watch those. #sbarbook

Mr_Martenis       Perhaps ask students who declare a lack of interest to figure out why some people *are* fascinated by the subject #sbarbook

jsb16                       .@Mr_Martenis Trying to get Aristotelian thinkers to imagine being Newtonians is half my job as physics teacher. #sbarbook

lmhenry9               But I thought this was relevant to math: pg100 "To ensure greater understanding of abstract ideas...txtbk-driven courses allow." #sbarbook

lmhenry9               Followed by the intellectual Outward Bound comment. #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9 Honestly, top kids hated the question bcs they have think math is not emotional. The lower level kids really excelled! #sbarbook

druinok                  @Mr_Martenis I figure if I can get more usage of 1-3, I'm doing better than I currently am :) #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @gwaddellnvhs I can see that - many of those kids are stronger in more "creative" areas than the top kids. #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @druinok I'd agree with that comment. #sbarbook

jsb16                       Also for empathy, trying to redesign experiment to be carried out without tech we have or with tech we don't have? #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @druinok LOL. One answer I got was "happy bcs substitution fills holes in the equations when something is removed." #sbarbook

stardiverr              Had success with empathy in bioethics, I think.  #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @mrhodotnet #sbarbook I just added some additional files I have.

druinok                  @jsb16 I can see that - asking kids how they would design it if they didn't have the access #sbarbook

druinok                  @stardiverr bioethics could get into a lot of interesting discussions, including the "perspectives" facet #sbarbook

jsb16                       .@druinok Especially because Aristotle, Galileo, Newton, et al didn't have Logger Pro! #sbarbook

druinok                  @justbugnu but based on the rubric in ch 3, isn't that part of problem solving? tackling something unlike your experience? #sbarbook

Mr_Martenis       @druinok Oh, it's a reach. I wasn't seriously suggesting doing it, just trying to figure whether I understand the empathy facet. #sbarbook

stardiverr              @druinok As well as #6.  Students learn that they want to make responsible decisions for self, family, society.  #sbarbook

stardiverr              In Chemistry, it's been tough to get 4, 5, 6. #sbarbook

druinok                  @jsb16 LOL :)  or given certain tools, what data could you have collected? could you have repeated the experiment? #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @stardiverr I think that's the case in math also, although if students are reflecting on their learning somehow, 6 is possible. #sbarbook

stardiverr              @Mr_Martenis what about empathy with scientists and mathematicians? #sbarbook

jsb16                       .@stardiverr For 4: how does a HazMat team use this info? Poison Control? #sbarbook

druinok                  @stardiverr I am guessing you are a science person? :)  glad you found us!  always appreciate a new perspective #sbarbook

stardiverr              @lmhenry9 students assessing their own learning by describing, in their own voice, is very powerful. #sbarbook

jsb16                       #sbarbook I think the catchall for 4 is identifying assumptions made for math/science. For physics, usually lack of friction.

stardiverr              @druinok Currently, science.  Math, in the past. #sbarbook

druinok                  glancing ahead, it does appear that the future chapters are more concrete - looking forward to reading about EQs next #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @druinok I felt *finally* like we are heading into something more concrete next chapter rather than more theory. #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @druinok Although this theory wasn't as tough as chapter 3 of #sbarbook.

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9  #sbarbook Yes, chap 5 is where the idea for the "honeycomb" questions came from. pg 120.

stardiverr              @jsb16 also - household uses, cooking, household cleaners, paints #sbarbook

druinok                  @lmhenry9 I think they alluded to that too at the end of this chapter - so ready to go more concrete! #sbarbook

sciteacheraker    Jumping on the bandwagon about empathy...  how about studies of persecuted scientists whose thinking was radical for times #sbarbook

jsb16                       Itching to get started applying the theory. I have units to design! #sbarbook

stardiverr              @druinok Used EQs in a PLC in my last building.  Powerful.  #sbarbook

sciteacheraker    And that empathy discussion would lead to discussion of the value of skepticism in science #sbarbook

fourkatie               @druinok @lmhenry9 definitely ready for concrete.  understanding about understanding. my brain needs some examples. #sbarbook

jrykse                      @lmhenry9 @druinok ditto that.  Got a couple sbg books you did last year. Find myself skimming.  #sbarbook

sciteacheraker    Oh yeah, and what is #sbarbook? :-)

gwaddellnvhs      @sciteacheraker  #sbarbook that would be a terrific empathy question. Lots of empathy questions could be related to the history of math.

stardiverr              @sciteacheraker works well with chemists and the early old-earth guys .  #sbarbook

stardiverr              @sciteacheraker works well with chemists and the early old-earth guys .  #sbarbook

druinok                  @fourkatie yes!!!  so far, this book has been pretty heavy, not what I was expecting :) #sbarbook

stardiverr              @sciteacheraker I am SO glad you are here!  #sbarbook

jsb16                       @sciteacheraker #sbarbook is currently Understanding by Design. Book discussion 'club' for ed geeks. :)

lmhenry9               @sciteacheraker Understanding by Design by Wiggins and McTighe is #sbarbook this time around.

stardiverr              @druinok This book takes a pretty simple concept and makes you think.  A lot.  #sbarbook

sciteacheraker    @lmhenry9 Ah cool.  Just found all of the tweets in my #sbar column on Tweetdeck. :-) #sbarbook

jrykse                      You all have done great job of blogging your sbg trials & tribulations, find myself saying "already know that". #sbarbook

stardiverr              I'm not sure I am am edgeek..... #sbarbook

justbugnu             @druinok yes I'm ready to get into concrete things I can sink my teeth into. Lol #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @stardiverr @druinok I would definitely agree with that. I have thought *so* much reading this #sbarbook. May want a break after this one.

lmhenry9               @jrykse That's a good thing. Makes the reading go easier. #sbarbook

druinok                  @sciteacheraker its an online book club :)  we are currently reading Understanding by Design #sbarbook

stardiverr              What have you read previously? #sbarbook

lmhenry9               Since we are winding down on Chapter 4 of #sbarbook - when do you want to do the next one?

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9  #sbarbook I think this book is very dense. It definitely is not new teacher reading. W/o experience it is gibberish.

fourkatie               I read an outline of book from a colleague to fill in as I catch up, so I may be missing stuff. but abstract/theoretical so far #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @gwaddellnvhs W/out discussion and experience #sbarbook (UbD) is gibberish I think.

justbugnu             @druinok yes for first part of year anyway n then could use for summative later. Lots to think about....#sbarbook

druinok                  @gwaddellnvhs the empathy question (based on @sciteacheraker's comment) ties into #statbook too #sbarbook

stardiverr              Thanks for letting me hang out ;)  #sbarbook

jsb16                       #sbarbook Friday for next chapter?

gwaddellnvhs      @druinok  #statbook #sbarbook completely agree. I am really going to push that this year.

lmhenry9               @stardiverr You are welcome anytime to #sbarbook.

sciteacheraker    I'll definitely check in next Friday!  Thanks for letting me eavesdrop. :-)  #sbarbook

lmhenry9               Thu or Fri for #sbarbook?

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9  #sbarbook I am at another baseball game on thursday, but can catch up later with the blog if we go thursday.

druinok                  @stardiverr that can be tough for my summer brain :) heheheh  but definitely getting a lot out of it #sbarbook

stardiverr              I'll check in on Friday.  At workshop on Thursday. Been awhile since I could be on the other side of the table. #sbarbook

druinok                  @lmhenry9 I'm free for either - whatever is good for the rest #sbarbook

lmhenry9               We could do Chapter 5 Friday 7/1 and Chapter 6 Wednesday 7/6 as a possibility for #sbarbook.

jrykse                      @lmhenry9 Can do either. #sbarbook

fourkatie               I've got book club in real life Friday, but will catch up for next week #sbarbook

lmhenry9               Let's go with this schedule for the moment: Chapter 5 Friday 7/1 Chapter 6 Wednesday 7/6 both at 9:30p est. #sbarbook

justbugnu             I need more time too...if I could only get one more month of planning I would rock in the classroom! Lol.#sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @lmhenry9  #sbarbook I am in for that schedule.

lmhenry9               FYI - I will have a hard time being on for #sbarbook between Thu 7/7 & Mon 7/11 and will be looking @ Ch 7 to be either Tue 7/12 or Wed 7/13

lmhenry9               Thanks everyone for a good conversation tonight. Will get transcript up shortly. #sbarbook

druinok                  @lmhenry9 Now that summer is here, would it be easier to go a bit later?  would that help with scheduling conflicts? #sbarbook

lmhenry9               @druinok It won't make a difference for me. I can do later if others want. Maybe 10p est? #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @druinok #sbarbook Agreed. I would like some time to make some more honeycombs and rainbow questions and get them uploaded!

druinok                  Very eager to read about EQs - they talked about them some at the AVID workshop last week #sbarbook

lmhenry9               So can we do Ch 5 Fri 7/1 and Ch 6 Wed 7/6 at 10p est? #sbarbook

gwaddellnvhs      @druinok @lmhenry9 #sbarbook sounds great to me.

lmhenry9               I'm getting a mixed bag at the moment. We'll keep Ch 5 on Fri 7/1 at 9:30p est & see what people think about Wed 7/6 (Ch 6) then. #sbarbook

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